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Post & comment count Date Author Title or First Words
Discussion Tree: Animal Welfare (1) 2019/11/21 curi Rather than defend the moral value or general intelligence of animals, many people instead question the moral value or general intelligence of humans (especially babies, senile people, people with low IQs, and other groups that people are bigoted agai
Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate (111) 2019/11/21 curi #14513 Good thing I saved that, she already deleted all of it: Erica: > Comments cleaned since I know you've seen them. To summarize: please use Veganism & Vegetarianism Chat for extended discussion, or Veganism & Vegetarianism Meta to talk abou
The Impossibility of Socialism (15) 2019/11/21 Anonymous The issues brought up in your original post, and the responses I made to it, were philosophical ones. If you want to present an economic argument for your position / against the socialist one, I might be able to address it, but you haven't.
Deplatforming and Fraud (11) 2019/11/21 Anonymous All advertising is false advertising.
Potential Debate Topics (5) 2019/11/21 curi #14496 ok bro? did you want to try to do truth seeking about anything?
Open Discussion 2 (2019) (31) 2019/11/21 Alisa #14487 The emphasis was mine in the quotes from Palo Alto Online.
Taleb Is Wrong: Killing Millions Actually Is Risky (7) 2019/11/20 Anonymous > https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf ok let's see. 2018. search for "deutsch". no results. why do you think this will be persuasive to anyone here? we're just gonna see that he didn't address Deutsch's arguments and think he's d
Animal Rights Issues Regarding Software and AGI (4) 2019/11/20 curi Freeze pointed out that I already wrote this: [Brains are Computers](https://curi.us/2022-brains-are-computers)
Open Discussion: Economics (189) 2019/11/20 curi [The Failure of the 'New Economics'](https://mises.org/library/failure-new-economics-0) Great Hazlitt book. I would be interested if anyone knows of any rebuttals to it (books, papers, even blog posts). I'd like to make a discussion tree about this
Anne Discussion (57) 2019/11/19 Anne B Propositional Logic
Global Warming Debate (10) 2019/11/19 N Lindzen talks about temperature measurements, climate models & government in science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-fXj-ANWRk&
Social Metaphysics (42) 2019/11/16 curi >> Interpretation isn't arbitrary. The question isn't how did Joe interpret it. The question is how *should* it be interpreted? What does it actually mean? What interpretation is reasonable or rational? > What is the basis of what should be interpr
Fuck China (11) 2019/11/14 Anonymous #14344 Blizzard has nothing to gain from giving them a platform they can't change the Chinese government.
Productive Global Warming Discussion (50) 2019/11/14 Anonymous The Illiteracy in this Blog is amazing
What To Read (76) 2019/11/13 curi *This Perfect Day* is good. Dystopian novel kinda like Anthem, 1984, Brave New World.
Critical Rationalism Epistemology Explanations (41) 2019/11/12 curi #14299 I tried speaking to that guy. He doesn't want to discuss. https://twitter.com/curi42/status/1193355932937244673 Is there a reason you think that post is important or some specific ideas in it that you want comments on?
Discussion Trees With Example (42) 2019/11/10 curi GraphViz doesn't support automatic wordwrap. I forgot about that but it basically makes it unusable for me for large trees where I write a whole paragraph in some nodes. I tried xmind (like omni you can import from a markdown list and lose formatti
curi's Progress (51) 2019/11/09 curi Summary
Praise for Yes or No Philosophy (16) 2019/11/09 Andy Dufresne Bible Yes or No
Morality (11) 2019/11/09 The Rat #14257 Thanks, Howard. I think rule-consequentialism does have principles (rules) that are evaluated based on their consequences. Rule-consequentialism claims that an act is permissible if and only if it is allowed by a code that could reasonab
Discussions Should Use Sources (3) 2019/11/09 N Typo detected
Open Discussion (2019) (627) 2019/11/08 curi #14238 You or anyone else can reach out to Destiny. You can post to his reddit and say who I am and why he should debate me. Good luck. I'll talk with him if he wants to. > he seems like he's really interested in truth-seeking and debate I don't
Introductory Questions (5) 2019/11/08 Learning Marx What is Marx’s view of alienation? Do you agree with some, or none of it?
Rand on Nurture (27) 2019/11/08 Anonymous There is evidence that the neural cytoskeleton plays a computational role in our brain. For example, that it is involved in the formation of memories. And the cytoskeleton does look like an amazing and super-fast molecular computer - check out videos
The Most Important Improvement to Popperian Philosophy of Science (5) 2019/11/07 Anonymous FoR: > But experimental testing is by no means the only process involved in the growth of scientific knowledge. The overwhelming majority of theories are rejected because they contain bad explanations, not because they fail experimental tests. We r

Recent Individual Comments

Title or First Words Author Post Date
Rather than defend the moral value or general intelligence of animals, many people instead question the moral value or general intelligence of humans (especially babies, senile people, people with low IQs, and other groups that people are bigoted agai curi Discussion Tree: Animal Welfare 2019/11/21
#14513 Good thing I saved that, she already deleted all of it: Erica: > Comments cleaned since I know you've seen them. To summarize: please use Veganism & Vegetarianism Chat for extended discussion, or Veganism & Vegetarianism Meta to talk abou curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzb2ge/animal_rights_issues_regarding_software_and_agi/f8a9u8v/?context=3 [image] curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
Saving this before some stack exchange moderator deletes it, someone gave a bunch of sources that don't appear to deal with computation or any specific diagram nodes, and then he refused to specify a single thing that was relevant to any specific node curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
https://vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/questions/2034/non-robotic-animal-behaviors [image] RIP. And moderators are so consistently such nasty people. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14508 He didn't like that. [image] curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
The issues brought up in your original post, and the responses I made to it, were philosophical ones. If you want to present an economic argument for your position / against the socialist one, I might be able to address it, but you haven't. Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
I added an animals blog category: https://curi.us/archives/list_category/115 In it you will find 3 new posts about animals: https://curi.us/2247-the-cambridge-declaration-on-consciousness https://curi.us/2248-human-and-animal-differences ht curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
> I have no particular interest in engaging with Austrian economics. OK if you don't want to argue against my views, nor learn from me, bye I guess. curi The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyi0qm/random_thoughts_small_questions_and_general/f8a2u0y/ [image] curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
"Let's stick to economics," they say after jumping in at the end of a conversation about property relations and politics. If you have any questions or arguments concerning my initial or followup posts, I'll be glad to answer them. I have no particula Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
> It's important to note that Austrian economics and these socialist ideas I'm putting forward are incompatible, largely because of conflicting normative foundations. This is compounded by the fact that Austrian economics rests pretty much entirely on curi The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
Regarding the article on Kropotkin, it seems broadly factual. Of course, I don't agree with the claims the author makes w/r/t the economic impossibility of the abolition of private property etc. I think you'll find that Bookchin's work is primarily i Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
All advertising is false advertising. Anonymous Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/21
One of my big takeaways is most animal rights people denigrate humans. Rather than defending the value of animals, they deny that humans are special, all that intelligent, etc. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
>That isn't what AGI means. It means artificial general intelligence. "When asked their opinions about “human-level artificial intelligence” — aka “artificial general intelligence” (AGI)1 — many experts understandably reply that these t Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzb2ge/animal_rights_issues_regarding_software_and_agi/f89selz/?context=3 > I am sorry but this is just the same animal intelligence argument as always. Your rehashing of it just sets AGI as the intell curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
> I would also ask you why it is relevant to include the "non-AGI" descriptor for the algorithm about a cow. By definition(from my understanding) an AGI algorithm would be one that can perfectly mimic the experiences of a human. That isn't what AG curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
OGE banned from twitch https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dzlniu/oge_has_been_banned_from_twitch/ > A whomegalul streamer accused him of being transphobic because he said ”okay dude.” and > Nah Flocculency deleted h curi Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/21
#14492 >but my basic point is there’s nothing any cow does which looks different than just a bit more clever version of non-AGI algorithms we already know about. I would also ask you why it is relevant to include the "non-AGI" descriptor for Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14496 ok bro? did you want to try to do truth seeking about anything? curi Potential Debate Topics 2019/11/21
I gave you one point for each paragraph I agreed with and half a point where I partially agreed or was open to the idea. No points where I disagreed, strongly disagreed, or found the matter trivial and worthless. Your total score is 34.5 out of 86. Anonymous Potential Debate Topics 2019/11/21
#14494 Any comment on this article discussing Bookchin? https://mises.org/library/anarchism-peter-kropotkin Also Bookchin is quoted in another article: https://mises.org/library/malthusian-trap > Any attempt to solve the environmental cris curi The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
I broadly endorse what I described. I had intended only to address the distinction between personal and private property, but I tried my best to address the other questions that came up. Socialism, like democracy, is a term with a lot of different co Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
I posted a new question: https://bioinformatics.stackexchange.com/questions/10865/what-scientific-literature-indicates-any-animals-have-general-intelligence > What scientific literature documents animal behaviors that contradict the theory that curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
> Now comparing to a Roomba seems silly in this case. It's clear that no matter how many times my Roomba does something it's behaviour will never exceed the instructions in its code. Whereas the wasp shows the ability to learn, even if slowly, and cha curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzbzbt/animal_behaviors_that_couldnt_be_robotic/f8801v0/ fudge_mokey, who is apparently Patrick B, writes: > > Sensations are open to interpretation. They're input data. > > Sensations aren't inp curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
I got referred to this paper related to the crow video: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092895 Searched it and replied with this: > The paper doesn't discuss hardware, software, Turing, algorithms or computa curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14480 Yes, those are both errors. Thanks. I don't know how I messed that up. Alisa Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/21
#14487 The emphasis was mine in the quotes from Palo Alto Online. Alisa Open Discussion 2 (2019) 2019/11/21
PIA's no-log claims verified in court Alisa Open Discussion 2 (2019) 2019/11/21
> PS. Reading beginning of infinity and it's quite good so far, I realize I know nothing Awesome. FYI I helped edit that book and had ~5000 hours of conversations with the author, which is the main reason I know a lot about some things. And my view curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
> I've also posted one of the relevant sections below in case people don't feel like reading on reddit: > You claim that pain is only undesirable because we assign it a negative value judgement. According to you we assign it a negative value judgem curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14483 >through the exact same sequence of computation it would have had a similar experience to the wasp. *it would have had the exact same experience as the wasp Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14482 >Did you learn anything about the algorithmic nature of squirrel behavior from http://curi.us/272-algorithmic-animal-behavior ? I did read it and agreed with it. "Only after thirty or forty repetitions will the wasp finally drag the c Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14475 Did you learn anything about the algorithmic nature of squirrel behavior from http://curi.us/272-algorithmic-animal-behavior ? What are your takeaways? Does it help persuade you squirrels lack general intelligence and are similar to self-drivi curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
I am currently streaming my reading/writing/responding to these topics today. https://www.twitch.tv/curi42/ curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14473 You say 2016 twice then change to 2006 in the post. I'm guessing the 2016s are both errors? Anonymous Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/21
#14474 So has the stuff you're advocating been written down in a way that you endorse? Where do I read about the details of this system? Does it have a more specific name than "socialism"? curi The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
Some stack exchange replies, emphasis added: vegan and pets subreddits both want to close it as off topic. https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/68557/non-robotic-animal-behaviors John Forkosh: > @curi Just noticed your incredibly curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
I've also posted one of the relevant sections below in case people don't feel like reading on reddit: You claim that pain is only undesirable because we assign it a negative value judgement. According to you we assign it a negative value judgement Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14475 For reference here's the first response to curi, you can read through our exchange from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzbzbt/animal_behaviors_that_couldnt_be_robotic/f875qlt/ Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
#14467 >I only think mental suffering matters morally. I think "physical suffering" is a value judgment that you, the speaker, are putting on some information processing. I addressed this argument with curi in the following reddit thread. I've Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
I'm on my phone now so forgive me if I'm brief. A state is a political entity which claims certain kinds of exclusive legitimacy over a defined territory: political legitimacy, legitimate use of violence, regulation of economies and commerce, and ideo Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/21
Facebook censors PragerU post about top Dems voting for a border fence in 2016 Alisa Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/21
Lots of discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzbzbt/animal_behaviors_that_couldnt_be_robotic/ But not much in the way of straight answers, and no sources which address my main questions/arguments. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/68557/non-robotic-animal-behaviors?noredirect=1#comment190640_68557 Philip Klöcking: > Ravens have been shown to consider the individual traits of their peers and fake intentions in order to mislea curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/21
> https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnerable.pdf ok let's see. 2018. search for "deutsch". no results. why do you think this will be persuasive to anyone here? we're just gonna see that he didn't address Deutsch's arguments and think he's d Anonymous Taleb Is Wrong: Killing Millions Actually Is Risky 2019/11/20
> Slower progress isn't safe Slower, or even halted progress may not be *completely* safe, but to claim it is equivalently unsafe to faster progress is incorrect. Nick Bostrom's vulnerable world hypothesis (https://nickbostrom.com/papers/vulnera Anonymous Taleb Is Wrong: Killing Millions Actually Is Risky 2019/11/20
Freeze pointed out that I already wrote this: [Brains are Computers](https://curi.us/2022-brains-are-computers) curi Animal Rights Issues Regarding Software and AGI 2019/11/20
> AGI algorithms can exhibit the same behaviour as a human. This means they can experience physical and mental suffering in the same way as a human. If not, there would be certain situations in which human responses could not be replicated by the AGI Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Got linked to: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness-animal/ No search results for: compu algo softw hardw general i artificial i jeez. moving on. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
>You don't know what you're talking about. A binary computer can run an interpreter for ternary code or simulate a ternary computer. You're right and I wasn't aware that interpreters exist for binary to ternary. I would assume we could develop sim Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Clever Crows!? curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/68557/non-robotic-animal-behaviors Typical examples of people who don't know wtf they're talking about: Cell: > It seems to me that this question is based on shaky premises. First humans are anim curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzbzbt/animal_behaviors_that_couldnt_be_robotic/f872q7i/ Cows don't think creatively though. Or at least, where is the evidence to merit that belief? And people don't learn by mere exposure. But as I s curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Holy shit a guy, in all seriousness, [linked](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/68557/non-robotic-animal-behaviors?noredirect=1#comment190623_68557) me *dog telepathy* as *controlled science experiments*. https://www.youtube.com/watch? curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/dzbzbt/animal_behaviors_that_couldnt_be_robotic/f870cn8/ You'd have to learn [Critical Rationalist epistemology](http://fallibleideas.com/books#deutsch) for the full reasoning (which, yes, controversia curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Posted to more stack exchanges: https://pets.stackexchange.com/questions/26591/non-robotic-animal-behaviors https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/68557/non-robotic-animal-behaviors On the philosophy one I got a guy harassing me and a curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
People like the academic format and style b/c it dramatically reduces the need or scope for thinking. [example](https://www.gwern.net/Sunk-cost) from someone i like more than most E.g. > Sunk costs seem especially common in groups, as has be Anonymous Open Discussion 2 (2019) 2019/11/20
> Binary hardware can compute binary data or instructions. Any binary computation can be done independent of which binary hardware it runs on. It cannot run ternary code or quantum code. This is a physical limitation of the hardware. You don't know Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14454 Please stop referring to the anonymous guy you're talking with as "Hi Mr Curi" curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room This is, among other bad things, a denial of the hardware independence of computation. It does this by hypothetically supposing a type of computer which intuitively seems different than silicon CPUs, not curi Animal Rights Issues Regarding Software and AGI 2019/11/20
#14450 > I agree that computation is independent of hardware. But you said: > Humans and non-human animals have parts of their brain that are activated in response to noxious stimuli. Talking about specific hardware features seems to be d Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
My reply re _The Routledge Handbook of Philosophy of Animal Minds_ curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14448 You aren't taking into account the hardware independence of computation. You also seem to have unconceded what you already conceded? > I concede your point that animal behaviour can be perfectly accounted for with non-AGI algorithms. B Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14446 Logical proof isn't the standard here, and the proper standard is the *best* known idea. If you have no alternatives, then this idea wins by default. You need to learn epistemology. See Popper and Deutsch to begin with. http://fallibleideas. Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14445 >Do you have any alternative view that you think is better? Let's focus on your beliefs and arguments for now. I'm not the one putting forth an argument that isn't logically valid. >It requires judgments like disliking. >Asking fo Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14444 Do you have any alternative view that you think is better? Asking for proof is bad epistemology. And you're mixing up physical pain (information sent from nerves) with mental suffering. Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
One of the issues people don't get is the *hardware independence* of computation. They look at hardware features of brains and laptops, see differences, and conclude stuff is different. But software is separate from hardware, this is well known, they curi Animal Rights Issues Regarding Software and AGI 2019/11/20
> I suppose it would be more useful to explicate what is and is not a state, rather than a government. Go ahead. Dagny The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
> If a being's behaviour cannot be differentiated from a non-AGI algorithm it cannot experience suffering. Suffering is related to preferring or wanting X and getting not-X. It requires judgments like disliking. Not mere information or math but so Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
>You don't have a way to delineate capital and consumption goods. I mean, capital does have a definition. If you own something, if you hire people to use it for you to produce things, and it aids in or is necessary for that production, then you are a Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> I concede your point that animal behaviour can be perfectly accounted for with non-AGI algorithms. Will you also concede that human behavior cannot be accounted for in that way? Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> I mean, conceivably? But they're not productive capital. They are not the means of production which socialists are concerned about. At most they're inputs. You don't have a way to delineate capital and consumption goods. Such delineation is unnec Dagny The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
#14433 >A good argument would explain why the animal behavior cannot be accounted for by software algorithms like the non-AGI algorithms we know how to program today and use in video games, self-driving cars, computer vision, etc I concede your Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Got linked to [Science, Sentience, and Animal Welfare](https://animalstudiesrepository.org/ethawel/2/). But it doesn't discuss intelligence, computation, AGI, algorithms, etc. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> Those can all be used in production. I mean, conceivably? But they're not productive capital. They are not the means of production which socialists are concerned about. At most they're inputs. >By democracy do you mean democratic *government*? O Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
I posted: https://www.quora.com/unanswered/Is-there-scientifically-documented-behavior-of-any-nonhuman-animal-which-is-incompatible-with-animals-being-robots-running-non-AGI-software-algorithms-like-those-used-in-video-games-and-self-driving-cars curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14430 Patrick, you aren't a programmer, aren't a scientist of a relevant type, don't know about AGI, don't know about the physics of computation, aren't a logician, aren't a philosopher, have no important expertise to bring to the discussion, and als Howard Roark Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14427 >Pointing out your logic errors isn't a personal attack "You're not good enough at logic to debate productively." I guess we have different definitions of personal attack. I assumed that if I mentioned a community your associate had Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> household goods, clothing, furniture, toothbrushes Those can all be used in production. > Furthermore, socialists do not necessarily aim for specifically *government* control of the means of production. > *socialism is necessarily predicat Dagny The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
> I'm not interested in trying to peruse your entire blog post and imply the proof myself. You literally won't read my arguments about this but you're complaining that I no longer want to write new things for you!? curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14423 Pointing out your logic errors isn't a personal attack. You didn't even have the integrity to admit you were wrong. If you think I'm mistaken to judge you as being not worth talking with, and judging you as someone unfamiliar with logic, comput curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14415 So he thinks not merely roombas but microwaves and parking meters are a little bit conscious. But he has no clear reasoning (i checked both links re "sentience is not a binary property"). And what about how everything does information processin curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14422 >You're failing to differentiate animals from robots that exist right now. I addressed this in an earlier post to which you haven't responded. See below: >Where are the arguments regarding what experiencing suffering is in computat Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14420 >You're not good enough at logic to debate productively. Resorting to personal attacks is not very productive in my experience. >*It is not my post.* Which part are you not understanding? Well it was posted on your behalf and I ass Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> There's no reason that robots couldn't be developed that had the same mechanisms to feel physical pain that animals do. It's just that none have that capability right now. You're failing to differentiate animals from robots that exist right now. Logician Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14419 >It's failing at the basic task of differentiating the stuff it's saying from robots like self-driving cars in any important way. There's no reason that robots couldn't be developed that had the same mechanisms to feel physical pain that Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> "I would also add that I'm quite sure people on the debate a vegan subreddit are familiar with critical rationalism." That doesn't say where you came from. You're not good enough at logic to debate productively. It's also an odd assertion given curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK32655/ Looks like this article on the physical mechanisms of pain fails to distinguish physical pain mechanisms (information signals and processing) from suffering and mental states (which it doesn't know about curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
>When, where? "I would also add that I'm quite sure people on the debate a vegan subreddit are familiar with critical rationalism." >You're accusing me of not doing something in a post that you know I didn't write. Then your post shouldn't ha Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Read about ITT. Looks like junk that doesn't have arguments to refute any of my views and has no clue about CR and doesn't seem to know or say much about computation or physics either. If anyone knows that I'm missing something, please refer me to a s curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> I did mention that I came from the DebateAVegan subreddit. When, where? > you didn't put forward a specific argument and you didn't make the post yourself. You're accusing me of not doing something in a post that you know I didn't write. curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
from https://reducing-suffering.org/do-video-game-characters-matter-morally In the [Summary](https://reducing-suffering.org/do-video-game-characters-matter-morally/#Summary) section he lays out his basic claim: > The difference between non-pl Justin Mallone Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
BobSeger1945 said this to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyccjq/seeking_proanimal_rights_literature/f86cyrk/?context=3 > I strongly doubt it. But the most popular computational theory of consciousness is IIT, and it's leading propon curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
I was referred to and looked through the book, but wasn't given any specific passages or quotes. https://www.amazon.com/Death-Ethic-Life-John-Basl-ebook/dp/B07N94DQ16/ I didn't find in it the sorts of arguments I'm looking for. It doesn't analyz curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Grey_Parrots > In 2011, research led by Dalila Bovet of Paris West University Nanterre La Défense, demonstrated grey parrots were able to coordinate and collaborate with each other to an extent. T curi Animal Rights Issues Regarding Software and AGI 2019/11/20
> Since you put no effort into your post and didn't cohesively make any specific argument I'm not surprised people aren't wiling to put effort into their responses. How is creating a diagram of arguments, and doing quite a bit of research (see the curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
> An animal has the capability to feel these painful physical responses and thus can experience physical suffering. No robots that I am aware of replicate this experience. Where are the arguments regarding what experiencing suffering is in computat curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Question on philosophy stack exchange oh my god it's turpentine Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
You've made a classic mistake in your understanding of the means of production (and distribution), and private and personal property. Personal property are things like household goods, clothing, furniture, toothbrushes, etc. Things that a particular Anonymous The Impossibility of Socialism 2019/11/20
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyccjq/seeking_proanimal_rights_literature/f8615bj/?context=3 > I think all humans (with exceptions like braindead people on life support) have *general intelligence* (the thing that Artificial General Intell curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
I found some relevant literature https://reducing-suffering.org/do-video-game-characters-matter-morally/ Justin Mallone Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyccjq/seeking_proanimal_rights_literature/f85xghx/?context=3 > Information is physical, see modern physics, e.g. https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0104033.pdf > I'm asking for a sophisticated comparison invo curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyccjq/seeking_proanimal_rights_literature/f85vpbq/?context=3 > That argument is bad. Humans clearly (maybe you disagree!?) have some sort of mental capabilities which have positive survival which are not sha curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
[The Failure of the 'New Economics'](https://mises.org/library/failure-new-economics-0) Great Hazlitt book. I would be interested if anyone knows of any rebuttals to it (books, papers, even blog posts). I'd like to make a discussion tree about this curi Open Discussion: Economics 2019/11/20
#14397 A central nervous system could be put in a robot. That is a matter of the specific physical mechanism that sends sensor data from the sensors to the CPU/brain. The information sent can be the same for a wide variety of mechanisms. Wires with no curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
"Do you agree a Roomba, self-driving car or AlphaGo doesn't suffer?" I agree that a Roomba or self driving car doesn't suffer. "If so, you should figure out what you think is relevantly different about them and a cow." A cow has a central ner Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
More Places To Ask curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Two comments by me curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
I Made a Video About This curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
CritRat asked my question curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
#14391 > Are values or preferences required to experience suffering? I think so. If you don't think so, tell me what you think the requirement is for suffering. Do you agree a Roomba, self-driving car or AlphaGo doesn't suffer? If so, you sh curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Hi Mr Curi Patrick B Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
At https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/dyccjq/seeking_proanimal_rights_literature/ I was directed to the following claim (quote 5 from the menu): http://www.scdesign.ie/ar_results1.php Tom Regan in his book *The Case for Animal Rights*: curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
Stream of going to the Ask Yourself discord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dYjSEPQf20&list=PLKx6lO5RmaeuXinlXLiZtm16HNE20KPdL curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/20
A video on Soph (aka LtCorbis) being banned from YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVoI5Vj11JQ Guy seems center-left or moderate or something (hard to tell), not a Soph fan, but a free speech fan who has criticism of our tech dystopia. Anonymous Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/19
https://graphics.chicagotribune.com/illinois-seclusion/ School children being locked in rooms, like solitary confinement at jails, often illegally. There are 20,000 records of "seclusion" in Illinois in one school year. Anonymous Open Discussion 2 (2019) 2019/11/19
Propositional Logic Anne B Anne Discussion 2019/11/19
WSJ: How Google Interferes With Its Search Algorithms and Changes Your Results Anonymous Deplatforming and Fraud 2019/11/19
Lindzen talks about temperature measurements, climate models & government in science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-fXj-ANWRk& N Global Warming Debate 2019/11/19
Climategate curi Global Warming Debate 2019/11/18
I liked Lindzen's 5 minute video for Prager U. It has summary info related to the global warming debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCM2RyTZttc I liked this 50min interview with Lindzen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVeSmXFX-w Thi curi Global Warming Debate 2019/11/18
curiToday at 5:04 PM I’m a non-vegan philosopher (and programmer) attempting to research and diagram arguments relating to animal rights. I'm looking for help finding literature with certain types of pro animal rights arguments. What I've done so f Anonymous Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
I looked at the *Fellow Creatures* book a bit because someone on Ask Yourself discord replied suggesting it. It didn't seem to have anything addressing my arguments. The person somehow hadn't noticed my diagram or that I brought up computers. Also curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Ask Yourself discord link: https://discord.gg/dUPFfby curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Ask Yourself Discord curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Forum Posts curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Project Status curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Paper: [Why animals are not robots](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11097-013-9342-y) This paper actually proposes three categories. It differentiates humans, animals and robots. It doesn't equate humans with animals. What does it cla curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
How Important Is Golden Rice? Anonymous Taleb Is Wrong: Killing Millions Actually Is Risky 2019/11/18
Singer on Descartes curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
I checked Singer's *Animal Liberation* book. It has no discussion of computation. It mentions robots twice: > We also know that the nervous systems of other animals were not artificially constructed—as a robot might be artificially constructed— curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Commentary on this blog post (no substantial criticisms at the time of posting, and a number of people who didn't read what I wrote, let alone read Forrester or Taleb): https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/dxybak/taleb_is_wrong_killing_ curi Taleb Is Wrong: Killing Millions Actually Is Risky 2019/11/18
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/animals/rights/rights_1.shtml This page gives some counter arguments against animal rights, then doesn't even try to argue why they're wrong. And it mentions something I saw elsewhere too: > The French philosopher Ren curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
Doing some more searches today about this stuff. The most relevant material I found is this crap: http://natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic1/robots.htm > What artificial intelligence researchers like about insects is their supposedly simple, rule-bas curi Discussion Tree: State of Animal Rights Debate 2019/11/18
https://rabett.blogspot.com/2010/10/andy-dessler-smokes-richard-lindzen.html Title: > Andy Dessler Smokes Richard Lindzen No argument or explanation is given for this claim. But there are two block quotes, both from Dessler. The first is: curi Global Warming Debate 2019/11/18

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